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	<title>Comments on: Tax Incentives Are a Game We Can&#8217;t Win</title>
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	<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/tax-incentives-are-a-game-we.html</link>
	<description>Advancing liberty with responsibility by promoting market solutions for Missouri public policy</description>
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		<title>By: Caitlin Hartsell</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/tax-incentives-are-a-game-we.html/comment-page-1#comment-7169</link>
		<dc:creator>Caitlin Hartsell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 19:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19188#comment-7169</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s easy to &quot;see&quot; the auto industry (and even those service industries connected to it) because those are jobs concentrated in one area.  It is much harder to see the jobs that other businesses could have created if other businesses had lower tax rates and were thus able to employ more people.

Unfortunately, the companies that tend to get these protectionist aid tend to be less efficient than other industries, which is part of the reason why they lobby for it in the first place. It stands to reason, then, that the money is not used as efficiently as it would have been by the original taxpayers or businesses if they had expanded their own payrolls, or had more money to spend on goods for themselves. If individuals allocate the money themselves, it goes towards sectors that the public values more. Why should we all pay more for Ford to make cars, especially if more people want to drive a Honda? The government is ill-equipped to choose the &quot;right&quot; industries to which to distribute money.

Your argument is that protectionism is good because it keeps people employed.  Even if we grant all your premises, we can see that this protectionism hasn&#039;t worked in the U.S. The steel industry and auto industries get tariffs, subsidies, etc. and they are still hemorrhaging jobs.  What is the result? Cars and steel are more expensive, and the taxpayers have fewer dollars to spend to create jobs in other sectors of the economy (places where, if they had a lower tax rate, more jobs could be created). And some of the jobs that we spend so much money trying to protect are still disappearing. Protectionist policy leads to &lt;em&gt;more&lt;/em&gt; unemployment, and if we follow your logic, &lt;em&gt;more&lt;/em&gt; suicides.

So, will we have fewer auto workers in Missouri if Ford decides to leave? Maybe. But will other businesses be able to expand their payrolls if their tax rates were lower after the state stopped handing out tax incentives to favored industries? Yes, but these jobs are more diffuse and spread across the state, and therefore harder to point to.

(I&#039;ll point you to our case study about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.showmeinstitute.org/publication/id.203/pub_detail.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tennessee&#039;s higher economic growth than Missouri&#039;s&lt;/a&gt;. It&#039;s an interesting point to ponder.)

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.swlearning.com/economics/mankiw/principles2e/principles.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Trade makes everyone better off&lt;/a&gt;. When goods are cheaper (like, when they come from a foreign country) people have more purchasing power. This raises the standard of living across the board. When taken over generations, these protectionist policies severely hamper the quality of life for future generations. 

We can see empirically that these protectionist policies are not as effective as they pretend to be: American cars are more expensive, and people are still losing jobs in that sector. It takes a lot of money to prop up industries that cannot compete on their own, money that, if left in other sectors, would translate to even more jobs than those in the protected sectors. (Really, if you haven&#039;t read it yet, Henry Hazlitt’s &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://jim.com/econ/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Economics in One Lesson&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt; is worth reading. He explains this phenomenon very clearly.)  

Also, though this is not a topic that &lt;em&gt;Show-Me Daily&lt;/em&gt; deals with, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nysun.com/arts/shock-jock/63867/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Naomi Klein&lt;/a&gt;&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tnr.com/article/books/dead-left&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;portrayal&lt;/a&gt; of &lt;a href=&quot;http://reason.com/archives/2008/09/26/defaming-milton-friedman&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Milton Friedman&lt;/a&gt; is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9384&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ahistorical&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9626&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;inaccurate&lt;/a&gt;, and thus not a convincing example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s easy to &#8220;see&#8221; the auto industry (and even those service industries connected to it) because those are jobs concentrated in one area.  It is much harder to see the jobs that other businesses could have created if other businesses had lower tax rates and were thus able to employ more people.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the companies that tend to get these protectionist aid tend to be less efficient than other industries, which is part of the reason why they lobby for it in the first place. It stands to reason, then, that the money is not used as efficiently as it would have been by the original taxpayers or businesses if they had expanded their own payrolls, or had more money to spend on goods for themselves. If individuals allocate the money themselves, it goes towards sectors that the public values more. Why should we all pay more for Ford to make cars, especially if more people want to drive a Honda? The government is ill-equipped to choose the &#8220;right&#8221; industries to which to distribute money.</p>
<p>Your argument is that protectionism is good because it keeps people employed.  Even if we grant all your premises, we can see that this protectionism hasn&#8217;t worked in the U.S. The steel industry and auto industries get tariffs, subsidies, etc. and they are still hemorrhaging jobs.  What is the result? Cars and steel are more expensive, and the taxpayers have fewer dollars to spend to create jobs in other sectors of the economy (places where, if they had a lower tax rate, more jobs could be created). And some of the jobs that we spend so much money trying to protect are still disappearing. Protectionist policy leads to <em>more</em> unemployment, and if we follow your logic, <em>more</em> suicides.</p>
<p>So, will we have fewer auto workers in Missouri if Ford decides to leave? Maybe. But will other businesses be able to expand their payrolls if their tax rates were lower after the state stopped handing out tax incentives to favored industries? Yes, but these jobs are more diffuse and spread across the state, and therefore harder to point to.</p>
<p>(I&#8217;ll point you to our case study about <a href="http://www.showmeinstitute.org/publication/id.203/pub_detail.asp" rel="nofollow">Tennessee&#8217;s higher economic growth than Missouri&#8217;s</a>. It&#8217;s an interesting point to ponder.)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.swlearning.com/economics/mankiw/principles2e/principles.html" rel="nofollow">Trade makes everyone better off</a>. When goods are cheaper (like, when they come from a foreign country) people have more purchasing power. This raises the standard of living across the board. When taken over generations, these protectionist policies severely hamper the quality of life for future generations. </p>
<p>We can see empirically that these protectionist policies are not as effective as they pretend to be: American cars are more expensive, and people are still losing jobs in that sector. It takes a lot of money to prop up industries that cannot compete on their own, money that, if left in other sectors, would translate to even more jobs than those in the protected sectors. (Really, if you haven&#8217;t read it yet, Henry Hazlitt’s <em><a href="http://jim.com/econ/" rel="nofollow">Economics in One Lesson</a></em> is worth reading. He explains this phenomenon very clearly.)  </p>
<p>Also, though this is not a topic that <em>Show-Me Daily</em> deals with, <a href="http://www.nysun.com/arts/shock-jock/63867/" rel="nofollow">Naomi Klein</a>&#8217;s <a href="http://www.tnr.com/article/books/dead-left" rel="nofollow">portrayal</a> of <a href="http://reason.com/archives/2008/09/26/defaming-milton-friedman" rel="nofollow">Milton Friedman</a> is <a href="http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9384" rel="nofollow">ahistorical</a> and <a href="http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9626" rel="nofollow">inaccurate</a>, and thus not a convincing example.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Duckworth</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/tax-incentives-are-a-game-we.html/comment-page-1#comment-7127</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Duckworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 23:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19188#comment-7127</guid>
		<description>Barriers to entry like subsidy and regulations also protect jobs -- small and large business -- from leaving one geographic region like town, state, or country.  They also protect small domestic businesses from being overtaken by cheaper foreign goods, as I referenced with structural adjustment or as we know the Washington Consensus.  Personally I would rather have a dead-weight loss over higher unemployment rates and suicides -- we saw in the Southern Cone to Russia when those policies were implemented by people like Jeff Sachs.  I support spending public dollars keeping our manufacturing in tact as opposed to what we&#039;ve seen across the Rustbelt.

How does keeping an auto plant open harm unseen businessmen?  Like the service sector business owners which support those workers?  Do you know what Natural Bridge was like before GM relocated to Wentzville?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barriers to entry like subsidy and regulations also protect jobs &#8212; small and large business &#8212; from leaving one geographic region like town, state, or country.  They also protect small domestic businesses from being overtaken by cheaper foreign goods, as I referenced with structural adjustment or as we know the Washington Consensus.  Personally I would rather have a dead-weight loss over higher unemployment rates and suicides &#8212; we saw in the Southern Cone to Russia when those policies were implemented by people like Jeff Sachs.  I support spending public dollars keeping our manufacturing in tact as opposed to what we&#8217;ve seen across the Rustbelt.</p>
<p>How does keeping an auto plant open harm unseen businessmen?  Like the service sector business owners which support those workers?  Do you know what Natural Bridge was like before GM relocated to Wentzville?</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin Hartsell</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/tax-incentives-are-a-game-we.html/comment-page-1#comment-7119</link>
		<dc:creator>Caitlin Hartsell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 17:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19188#comment-7119</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment, Douglas. TIFs and tax credits are both tax incentives that the government can use to help a specific business or individual that they choose. I included studies in my argument that show that both types are not effective. (The TIF study notes that many other economists have found TIFs to be ineffective; the audit report found the tax credit claims have been overblown and far more expensive for the taxpayers than initially explained.) It would be best to lower the broad tax base to help all individuals and businesses, instead of just politically connected individuals or businesses. Do you disagree with the empirical argument against favoring select industries, or the theoretical one?

I&#039;m not sure I understand your argument. Right now, the government has the power to take tax dollars and give them to specific corporations. The government gets to choose which businesses receive the taxpayers&#039; dollars and which businesses do not. I&#039;m not sure how one could argue that there could be an even greater capture than the government simply handing businesses billions of the taxpayers&#039; dollars. Perhaps your argument might make more sense on a topic other than tax credits (though I&#039;d be happy to discuss at another point why that still wouldn&#039;t hold true). But on the topic of tax credits, your argument does not make sense.

Tax credits help the targeted &quot;seen&quot; businesses and individuals who keep their jobs, but hurt the &quot;unseen&quot; individuals and businesses who have less money to create jobs or spend in other sectors of the economy. (Henry Hazlitt&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://jim.com/econ/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Economics in One Lesson&lt;em&gt;&lt;/a&gt; explains this in further detail.)

Perhaps no one has clearly articulated the libertarian/free-market/classical liberal philosophy to you before; you probably agree with it more than you believe. Governmental involvement necessarily gives corporations and big business more power... this is a bad thing. Governments create barriers to entry, which prevent others from competing with those favored businesses. They give favored industries the public&#039;s money. Big businesses like these tax credits, barriers, tax increment financing, etc., because they are able to capture far more market share than they could if they had to compete in a free and open market (or what you might call &quot;corporate anarchy&quot;).

Libertarianism/classical liberalism is a very nuanced philosophy, which I would be more than happy to talk with you about in detail at a later point or point you to some good essays and books explaining the mechanisms behind it.  I think you would benefit from &lt;a href=&quot;http://tinyurl.com/showmebooks&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;our book club&lt;/a&gt; discussions, where we discuss these sorts of issues and can address your disagreements in further detail. Our next meeting is on Wednesday, July 14, and we are reading the &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/dp/0691003815&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Ultimate Resource 2&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;. (Email &lt;a href=&quot;mailto:eric.dixon@showmeinstitute.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;our editor, Eric&lt;/a&gt;, for more information.) 

Hope to see you there!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment, Douglas. TIFs and tax credits are both tax incentives that the government can use to help a specific business or individual that they choose. I included studies in my argument that show that both types are not effective. (The TIF study notes that many other economists have found TIFs to be ineffective; the audit report found the tax credit claims have been overblown and far more expensive for the taxpayers than initially explained.) It would be best to lower the broad tax base to help all individuals and businesses, instead of just politically connected individuals or businesses. Do you disagree with the empirical argument against favoring select industries, or the theoretical one?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I understand your argument. Right now, the government has the power to take tax dollars and give them to specific corporations. The government gets to choose which businesses receive the taxpayers&#8217; dollars and which businesses do not. I&#8217;m not sure how one could argue that there could be an even greater capture than the government simply handing businesses billions of the taxpayers&#8217; dollars. Perhaps your argument might make more sense on a topic other than tax credits (though I&#8217;d be happy to discuss at another point why that still wouldn&#8217;t hold true). But on the topic of tax credits, your argument does not make sense.</p>
<p>Tax credits help the targeted &#8220;seen&#8221; businesses and individuals who keep their jobs, but hurt the &#8220;unseen&#8221; individuals and businesses who have less money to create jobs or spend in other sectors of the economy. (Henry Hazlitt&#8217;s <a href="http://jim.com/econ/" rel="nofollow"><em>Economics in One Lesson</em><em></em></a> explains this in further detail.)</p>
<p>Perhaps no one has clearly articulated the libertarian/free-market/classical liberal philosophy to you before; you probably agree with it more than you believe. Governmental involvement necessarily gives corporations and big business more power&#8230; this is a bad thing. Governments create barriers to entry, which prevent others from competing with those favored businesses. They give favored industries the public&#8217;s money. Big businesses like these tax credits, barriers, tax increment financing, etc., because they are able to capture far more market share than they could if they had to compete in a free and open market (or what you might call &#8220;corporate anarchy&#8221;).</p>
<p>Libertarianism/classical liberalism is a very nuanced philosophy, which I would be more than happy to talk with you about in detail at a later point or point you to some good essays and books explaining the mechanisms behind it.  I think you would benefit from <a href="http://tinyurl.com/showmebooks" rel="nofollow">our book club</a> discussions, where we discuss these sorts of issues and can address your disagreements in further detail. Our next meeting is on Wednesday, July 14, and we are reading the <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/0691003815" rel="nofollow">The Ultimate Resource 2</a></em>. (Email <a href="mailto:eric.dixon@showmeinstitute.org" rel="nofollow">our editor, Eric</a>, for more information.) </p>
<p>Hope to see you there!</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Duda</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/tax-incentives-are-a-game-we.html/comment-page-1#comment-7117</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Duda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 17:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19188#comment-7117</guid>
		<description>Doug,

What precisely are you saying?

I think that government did pick a winner with that &lt;a href=&quot;http://vanishingstl.blogspot.com/2009/11/kick-them-when-theyre-down-culinaria.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;new grocery store&lt;/a&gt; downtown...

no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug,</p>
<p>What precisely are you saying?</p>
<p>I think that government did pick a winner with that <a href="http://vanishingstl.blogspot.com/2009/11/kick-them-when-theyre-down-culinaria.html" rel="nofollow">new grocery store</a> downtown&#8230;</p>
<p>no?</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Duckworth</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/tax-incentives-are-a-game-we.html/comment-page-1#comment-7115</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Duckworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 17:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19188#comment-7115</guid>
		<description>TIF and tax credits are not the same.  You should not bring up TIF or that study regarding this plant in Columbia.  The TIF study&#039;s most significant findings were regarding competing municipalities.  St. Louis County&#039;s &quot;maximum choice,&quot; fragmentation, and TIF abuse, results from economist Charles Tiebout&#039;s application of neoliberial market extremism onto public service delivery, as well as suburban sprawl.   

Moreover, the idea that government picks winners and losers happens to be a joke.  Libertarianism would only be corporate anarchy and even greater capture among a reduced government body.  If anything TIF would increase as a weaker government would have reduced power to say no as fewer access points exist for citizens to object and be involved.  Finally, the people, through government, have an obligation to pick certain winners and choosers if their job or entire town happens to be at stake.  Or perhaps we should remove all trade barriers and subsidy flooding our borders with cheap foreign goods increase unemployment and maximizing suicides?  Wait, that would be what Milton et al did to South America, Asia, and Eastern Europe through structural adjustment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TIF and tax credits are not the same.  You should not bring up TIF or that study regarding this plant in Columbia.  The TIF study&#8217;s most significant findings were regarding competing municipalities.  St. Louis County&#8217;s &#8220;maximum choice,&#8221; fragmentation, and TIF abuse, results from economist Charles Tiebout&#8217;s application of neoliberial market extremism onto public service delivery, as well as suburban sprawl.   </p>
<p>Moreover, the idea that government picks winners and losers happens to be a joke.  Libertarianism would only be corporate anarchy and even greater capture among a reduced government body.  If anything TIF would increase as a weaker government would have reduced power to say no as fewer access points exist for citizens to object and be involved.  Finally, the people, through government, have an obligation to pick certain winners and choosers if their job or entire town happens to be at stake.  Or perhaps we should remove all trade barriers and subsidy flooding our borders with cheap foreign goods increase unemployment and maximizing suicides?  Wait, that would be what Milton et al did to South America, Asia, and Eastern Europe through structural adjustment!</p>
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