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	<title>Comments on: How Rebates for Energy-Efficient Appliances Destroy Wealth</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html</link>
	<description>Advancing liberty with responsibility by promoting market solutions for Missouri public policy</description>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html/comment-page-1#comment-7517</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 06:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19481#comment-7517</guid>
		<description>&quot;then it’s the governments obligation to ensure this remains preserved.&quot;

What crystal ball does the government have that tells it what and how much to extract for the use of the people?

This says that the people are just too stupid to know what they need and require overseer &quot;experts&quot; to tell them what they need.

In other words...central planning.  The real goal of the warmers and econuts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;then it’s the governments obligation to ensure this remains preserved.&#8221;</p>
<p>What crystal ball does the government have that tells it what and how much to extract for the use of the people?</p>
<p>This says that the people are just too stupid to know what they need and require overseer &#8220;experts&#8221; to tell them what they need.</p>
<p>In other words&#8230;central planning.  The real goal of the warmers and econuts.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Duckworth</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html/comment-page-1#comment-7185</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Duckworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 22:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19481#comment-7185</guid>
		<description>Private sector deregulation set us 30 years back in energy efficiency.  When &quot;The Limits to Growth&quot; was published,  the impact of endless resource extraction was on the public&#039;s mind.  Yet the answer to the Oil Embargo became not installing solar panels on the White House, but drill baby drill -- only Reagan was more eloquent in his jingoism.   Unfortunately, now, the consequences of our rational action are once again obviously apparently today in the Gulf of Mexico.   

Blind consumption today isn&#039;t within our even selfish interest as it effects our future standard of living and economic productivity.  If you believe in a public interest, then it&#039;s the governments obligation to ensure this remains preserved.  If not, I would like to hear how private sector deference will bring about the proliferation of efficient infrastructure which benefits everyone.  Historic examples only show the removal of streetcars for the automobile.  If gas prices hit 4-5 dollars a gallon tomorrow, whether due to increased consumption (unlikely), a terrorist attack, natural disaster, or the cartel colluding to increase profits, what would the private sector do in response to these increasing prices?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Private sector deregulation set us 30 years back in energy efficiency.  When &#8220;The Limits to Growth&#8221; was published,  the impact of endless resource extraction was on the public&#8217;s mind.  Yet the answer to the Oil Embargo became not installing solar panels on the White House, but drill baby drill &#8212; only Reagan was more eloquent in his jingoism.   Unfortunately, now, the consequences of our rational action are once again obviously apparently today in the Gulf of Mexico.   </p>
<p>Blind consumption today isn&#8217;t within our even selfish interest as it effects our future standard of living and economic productivity.  If you believe in a public interest, then it&#8217;s the governments obligation to ensure this remains preserved.  If not, I would like to hear how private sector deference will bring about the proliferation of efficient infrastructure which benefits everyone.  Historic examples only show the removal of streetcars for the automobile.  If gas prices hit 4-5 dollars a gallon tomorrow, whether due to increased consumption (unlikely), a terrorist attack, natural disaster, or the cartel colluding to increase profits, what would the private sector do in response to these increasing prices?</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Duckworth</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html/comment-page-1#comment-7184</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Duckworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 22:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19481#comment-7184</guid>
		<description>Can you cite other people besides Hayek, Friedman, Cato, or yourselves?  

Externalities, like global warming through pollution, are a major facto why we subsidize energy efficient appliances.  I don&#039;t understand how you think energy efficiency will be rolled out, especially the transition to alternative fuels, without government action.  The transition from wood to coal took many decades.  This isn&#039;t something the private sector will invest in, but rather keep drilling deeper wells and increase exploration in other areas such as ANWR.  

So energy efficient cars or automobiles increase demand or allow it to remain constant at your equilibrium?  If I purchase a Hybrid, then I&#039;ll move even farther away from my job and drive more, since I am seeing a cost savings per mile?  I don&#039;t think you factor in consumer preferences and why, independent of cost, people would chose green.  They do so because they are conscious of their impact upon the environment.  Many can&#039;t afford to go green presently and a subsidy brings them greater access to the green market.  It might be a &quot;transfer&quot; to the manufacturers, however I think that&#039;s a worthwhile industry to invest in given the decline in traditional manufacturing and that it&#039;s our future.  Given the revenue needed to purchase green capital, the government should encourage demand -- that is if we want to complete globally with other countries who have no problem creating dead-weight losses by investing in their domestic green entrepreneurs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you cite other people besides Hayek, Friedman, Cato, or yourselves?  </p>
<p>Externalities, like global warming through pollution, are a major facto why we subsidize energy efficient appliances.  I don&#8217;t understand how you think energy efficiency will be rolled out, especially the transition to alternative fuels, without government action.  The transition from wood to coal took many decades.  This isn&#8217;t something the private sector will invest in, but rather keep drilling deeper wells and increase exploration in other areas such as ANWR.  </p>
<p>So energy efficient cars or automobiles increase demand or allow it to remain constant at your equilibrium?  If I purchase a Hybrid, then I&#8217;ll move even farther away from my job and drive more, since I am seeing a cost savings per mile?  I don&#8217;t think you factor in consumer preferences and why, independent of cost, people would chose green.  They do so because they are conscious of their impact upon the environment.  Many can&#8217;t afford to go green presently and a subsidy brings them greater access to the green market.  It might be a &#8220;transfer&#8221; to the manufacturers, however I think that&#8217;s a worthwhile industry to invest in given the decline in traditional manufacturing and that it&#8217;s our future.  Given the revenue needed to purchase green capital, the government should encourage demand &#8212; that is if we want to complete globally with other countries who have no problem creating dead-weight losses by investing in their domestic green entrepreneurs.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html/comment-page-1#comment-7163</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19481#comment-7163</guid>
		<description>Elementary price theory shows that, ignoring externalities, subsidizing appliances is a transfer from taxpayers to appliance manufacturers which also generates dead-weight loss. If the appliances are more energy-efficient, the cost savings will be factored into demand. The only reason for subsidizing energy-efficient appliances that can have any economic merit is accounting for externalities (such as greenhouse emissions). As for the reliability of such a subsidy, I refer you to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/hykKnw1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the work of Hayek&lt;/a&gt; again, and remind you that information is the relevant scarce resource in this situation. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sfu.ca/~allen/CoaseJLE1960.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Coase is also useful&lt;/a&gt; here, I feel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elementary price theory shows that, ignoring externalities, subsidizing appliances is a transfer from taxpayers to appliance manufacturers which also generates dead-weight loss. If the appliances are more energy-efficient, the cost savings will be factored into demand. The only reason for subsidizing energy-efficient appliances that can have any economic merit is accounting for externalities (such as greenhouse emissions). As for the reliability of such a subsidy, I refer you to <a href="http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/hykKnw1.html" rel="nofollow">the work of Hayek</a> again, and remind you that information is the relevant scarce resource in this situation. <a href="http://www.sfu.ca/~allen/CoaseJLE1960.pdf" rel="nofollow">Coase is also useful</a> here, I feel.</p>
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		<title>By: Eapen Thampy</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html/comment-page-1#comment-7153</link>
		<dc:creator>Eapen Thampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 05:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19481#comment-7153</guid>
		<description>Or let me rephrase again. In the real world (where different markets interact with each other) does the wealth destruction that happens in this market translate to a net reduction in wealth?

Wealth is a stock, not a flow. If it is the case that your answer to the above question is yes, does the same hold true for income?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or let me rephrase again. In the real world (where different markets interact with each other) does the wealth destruction that happens in this market translate to a net reduction in wealth?</p>
<p>Wealth is a stock, not a flow. If it is the case that your answer to the above question is yes, does the same hold true for income?</p>
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		<title>By: Eapen Thampy</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html/comment-page-1#comment-7152</link>
		<dc:creator>Eapen Thampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 05:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19481#comment-7152</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right. In my haste, I used unspecific terminology.

Let me rephrase. You present a partial equilibrium model of a good in a market. Let me ask you if there are nonlinearities that exist (and if your analysis accounts for that) when we incorporate this specific market into a more general equilibrium model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right. In my haste, I used unspecific terminology.</p>
<p>Let me rephrase. You present a partial equilibrium model of a good in a market. Let me ask you if there are nonlinearities that exist (and if your analysis accounts for that) when we incorporate this specific market into a more general equilibrium model.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric D. Dixon</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html/comment-page-1#comment-7137</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric D. Dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 01:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19481#comment-7137</guid>
		<description>Douglas, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/04/do-energy-efficient-appliances.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;evidence suggests&lt;/a&gt; that when people save money on energy costs, they tend to consume more energy. Increasing energy efficiency is a worthwhile goal, but government policy is not an efficient route to achieving that goal -- and it&#039;s certainly not a magic bullet for saving the environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Douglas, <a href="http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/04/do-energy-efficient-appliances.html" rel="nofollow">evidence suggests</a> that when people save money on energy costs, they tend to consume more energy. Increasing energy efficiency is a worthwhile goal, but government policy is not an efficient route to achieving that goal &#8212; and it&#8217;s certainly not a magic bullet for saving the environment.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine Harbin</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html/comment-page-1#comment-7132</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Harbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 01:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19481#comment-7132</guid>
		<description>These aren&#039;t cost functions, Eapen. They&#039;re basic supply and demand curves.
Nonlinearities don&#039;t change the point of the post. Just integrate them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These aren&#8217;t cost functions, Eapen. They&#8217;re basic supply and demand curves.<br />
Nonlinearities don&#8217;t change the point of the post. Just integrate them.</p>
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		<title>By: Eapen Thampy</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html/comment-page-1#comment-7129</link>
		<dc:creator>Eapen Thampy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 00:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19481#comment-7129</guid>
		<description>What if the cost function contains nonlinearities?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if the cost function contains nonlinearities?</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Duckworth</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html/comment-page-1#comment-7126</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Duckworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 22:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19481#comment-7126</guid>
		<description>Yeah, but you didn&#039;t fit the social and environmental cost of global warming and pollution in your Econ 101 model.  Moreover, old appliances have entropy and use more energy as they degrade.  This increases the cost of running them.  Thus you have &quot;destroyed wealth&quot; in higher energy bills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, but you didn&#8217;t fit the social and environmental cost of global warming and pollution in your Econ 101 model.  Moreover, old appliances have entropy and use more energy as they degrade.  This increases the cost of running them.  Thus you have &#8220;destroyed wealth&#8221; in higher energy bills.</p>
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		<title>By: Abhi Sivasailam</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/06/how-rebates-for-energy.html/comment-page-1#comment-7124</link>
		<dc:creator>Abhi Sivasailam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 21:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=19481#comment-7124</guid>
		<description>I created the same graph just yesterday on mspaint. Sadly, mine was not in color. You have me beat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I created the same graph just yesterday on mspaint. Sadly, mine was not in color. You have me beat.</p>
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