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	<title>Comments on: A Ban I Actually Support</title>
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	<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/03/a-ban-i-actually-support.html</link>
	<description>Advancing liberty with responsibility by promoting market solutions for Missouri public policy</description>
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		<title>By: vroman</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/03/a-ban-i-actually-support.html/comment-page-1#comment-5882</link>
		<dc:creator>vroman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 23:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=16101#comment-5882</guid>
		<description>&quot;Insurers can profit from red-light cameras, since their revenues will increase when higher premiums are charged due to the crash and citation increase, the researchers say.&quot;

This does not make sense. Crashes mean insurers pay out. The ideal scenario from insurers perspective is to have people paying premiums and never crash, then the insurers are getting money for nothing.
If the argument is that they increase rates due to crashes, disproportionate to the cost of the crash, then that is no different from just arbitrarily raising rates at any point, whether crashes are increasing or decreasing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Insurers can profit from red-light cameras, since their revenues will increase when higher premiums are charged due to the crash and citation increase, the researchers say.&#8221;</p>
<p>This does not make sense. Crashes mean insurers pay out. The ideal scenario from insurers perspective is to have people paying premiums and never crash, then the insurers are getting money for nothing.<br />
If the argument is that they increase rates due to crashes, disproportionate to the cost of the crash, then that is no different from just arbitrarily raising rates at any point, whether crashes are increasing or decreasing.</p>
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		<title>By: John Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/03/a-ban-i-actually-support.html/comment-page-1#comment-5836</link>
		<dc:creator>John Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=16101#comment-5836</guid>
		<description>The study I cited is a meta-study that looks at numerous studies to draw its conclusions, which actually makes it ideal for drawing policy conclusions.

Furthermore, while I suppose it is possible to have red-light cameras and not just use them as a cash cow, once a city installs them--even if for purely safety purposes--the city begins to rely on the revenue, making it extremely difficult to keep them from using the cameras improperly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The study I cited is a meta-study that looks at numerous studies to draw its conclusions, which actually makes it ideal for drawing policy conclusions.</p>
<p>Furthermore, while I suppose it is possible to have red-light cameras and not just use them as a cash cow, once a city installs them&#8211;even if for purely safety purposes&#8211;the city begins to rely on the revenue, making it extremely difficult to keep them from using the cameras improperly.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/03/a-ban-i-actually-support.html/comment-page-1#comment-5811</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=16101#comment-5811</guid>
		<description>Slamming on the breaks in the middle of the intersection makes no rational sense. It&#039;s like posing for the camera while it takes a snapshot. 

I was initially confused by your post and the studies you cite because they seem so counterintuitive. It seems like to most obvious incentive would be to be more cautious at intersections. Having recently moved from Wisconsin (where there are no red light cameras) to Missouri, my behavior has certainly changed in such a manner. But I suppose the incentive story could work the way you&#039;re suggesting. To test this, I did an informal &lt;a href=&quot;http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=red+light+cameras&amp;hl=en&amp;btnG=Search&amp;as_sdt=400000001&amp;as_sdtp=on&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Google Scholar search of &quot;red light cameras&quot;&lt;/a&gt; and looked at the first 3 pages of citations.

The majority found that red light cameras reduced traffic accidents, especially right angle crashes. However, there were also a few that suggested the opposite, similar to the study you cited. I don&#039;t know enough to suggest the evidence is conclusive in one direction or another, but one study probably isn&#039;t enough to base one&#039;s policy prescriptions on. 

On the second point, suggesting that it&#039;s not a relevant option because it&#039;s just too tempting is a non-starter. I could similarly argue that simply banning the cameras is not a relevant option because &quot;the temptation to use them as a revenue stream is probably too strong to resist.&quot; Both are viable options, but if the real cause of the increased accidents is shorter yellow lights, then it would be good sense to eliminate that, while still reaping the alleged benefits of red light cameras.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slamming on the breaks in the middle of the intersection makes no rational sense. It&#8217;s like posing for the camera while it takes a snapshot. </p>
<p>I was initially confused by your post and the studies you cite because they seem so counterintuitive. It seems like to most obvious incentive would be to be more cautious at intersections. Having recently moved from Wisconsin (where there are no red light cameras) to Missouri, my behavior has certainly changed in such a manner. But I suppose the incentive story could work the way you&#8217;re suggesting. To test this, I did an informal <a href="http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=red+light+cameras&amp;hl=en&amp;btnG=Search&amp;as_sdt=400000001&amp;as_sdtp=on" rel="nofollow">Google Scholar search of &#8220;red light cameras&#8221;</a> and looked at the first 3 pages of citations.</p>
<p>The majority found that red light cameras reduced traffic accidents, especially right angle crashes. However, there were also a few that suggested the opposite, similar to the study you cited. I don&#8217;t know enough to suggest the evidence is conclusive in one direction or another, but one study probably isn&#8217;t enough to base one&#8217;s policy prescriptions on. </p>
<p>On the second point, suggesting that it&#8217;s not a relevant option because it&#8217;s just too tempting is a non-starter. I could similarly argue that simply banning the cameras is not a relevant option because &#8220;the temptation to use them as a revenue stream is probably too strong to resist.&#8221; Both are viable options, but if the real cause of the increased accidents is shorter yellow lights, then it would be good sense to eliminate that, while still reaping the alleged benefits of red light cameras.</p>
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		<title>By: John Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/03/a-ban-i-actually-support.html/comment-page-1#comment-5794</link>
		<dc:creator>John Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=16101#comment-5794</guid>
		<description>Read the first link.  The lead researcher attributes most of the wrecks to people slamming on their brakes in the middle of the intersection to avoid getting a ticket.  Furthermore, having the cameras and increasing the length of yellow lights is probably not a relevant option because once the cameras are in place, the temptation to use them as a revenue stream is probably too strong to resist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read the first link.  The lead researcher attributes most of the wrecks to people slamming on their brakes in the middle of the intersection to avoid getting a ticket.  Furthermore, having the cameras and increasing the length of yellow lights is probably not a relevant option because once the cameras are in place, the temptation to use them as a revenue stream is probably too strong to resist.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.showmedaily.org/2010/03/a-ban-i-actually-support.html/comment-page-1#comment-5793</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This seems like a false choice. The most direct cause of the increased accidents is not the red light cameras themselves, but the decreased time length of the yellow lights (according to the research you cited). The obviously better alternative would be simply to increase the time length of yellow lights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This seems like a false choice. The most direct cause of the increased accidents is not the red light cameras themselves, but the decreased time length of the yellow lights (according to the research you cited). The obviously better alternative would be simply to increase the time length of yellow lights.</p>
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