Dental Therapists
Thanks to the Columbia Missourian today for publishing my op-ed about dental therapists and professional licensing laws in Missouri. It’s an issue we have debated here on the blog before.
Thanks to the Columbia Missourian today for publishing my op-ed about dental therapists and professional licensing laws in Missouri. It’s an issue we have debated here on the blog before.
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Your “analysis” on the very complicated issue of oral healthcare in MO is full of faulty research, questionable sources and biased information. Did you ever think to contact anyone on the other side of this issue or were you simply trying to appear be “enlightened”?
For a supposed libertarian you have scratched the surface of an underlieing political agenda of some very far left folks. The end result of the DHAT proposal is a two tiered structure of providing helath care paid for by the government. The “barriers” placed by the legislature and enforced through licenseing boards serve only one purpose—to protect the welfare of the public. One part of that responsibility to protect the citizenry from ill informed and poorly concieved politically based “solutions”.
Hopefully as you continue your work at WashU you will become better prepared to evaluate and comment on public health issues.
Good Luck!!!
Comment by j — February 6, 2010 @ 9:02 a.m.
Thank you for your comment, J. I do not make my arguments based on where they fall upon the political spectrum, but on the basis of their merit. The far-left and I would also agree that general education is important for our society, even though we would disagree about how that should be structured, paid for, and what information should be taught. I’m not going to abandon the idea of schools because the other side has a different implementation method and purpose for it; in the same vein, I will not abandon the idea of dental therapists.
After looking at the research on the work of dental therapists, I am satisfied that they can provide a much-needed service at an appropriate level of quality. I would never argue that someone should be forced to go to a dental therapist over a dentist, but I do believe they should be afforded that opportunity.
You wrote:
The intention behind the “barriers” may be to protect the public, but they have another purpose and effect — they protect dentists from competition. The peer-reviewed literature shows a similar quality of work between a dental therapist and a dentist. What protection has this law provided the public then, other than to prevent people from obtaining dental care? (With which studies in particular do you take issue? I cited a number number of studies with positive conclusions about dental therapists. I cannot address any flaws in the literature without knowing which ones with which you disagree.)
The second part of that quote about political solutions (which does not actually follow from your previous statement, but I’ll address it anyway) is in no way hindered by licensing laws. If you disagree with political solutions — I personally do not think the government should make health care decisions for the public either — then you disagree with that component. Right now, our tiered system is a dentist or no dental care (and many are opting for no dental care.) An argument to open the health care market by removing regulations should not be clouded by an entirely different argument against government control of health care.
A market does not provide a homogenous set of goods. In the market place, I can choose to buy my dinner at McDonald’s, or I can buy it at Morton’s Steakhouse(or any other restaurant/grocery store.) The quality is higher at Morton’s, but I may be satisfied with McDonald’s because I cannot afford an expensive restaurant and McDonald’s satiates my hunger just as well.
The licensing law prohibits that decision, leaving consumers with only the Morton’s of dentistry. People choose to forego dental care altogether because of its high price. How is that a good thing?
Dental therapists still undergo training, just less of it. When a person visits a dentist, the majority of the visit is spent with a dental hygenist and not a dentist. A dental therapist can offer a similar product for a lower price — which opens the market for more people to receive dental care. The licensing laws price consumers out without protecting them.
Just because someone on the left (for different reasons and intentions) sees the value of dental therapists, it does not mean that we should prohibit them. Let the market and the public choose which product they want, whether it’s where they choose to eat, or who they let clean their teeth.
Comment by Caitlin Hartsell — February 7, 2010 @ 10:24 p.m.
Before I respond to most of your comments, I would ask a simple question:
In the free market system, how do you suppose a DHAT will be able to provide the same level of care as a dentist at a significantly lower cost?
Comment by j — February 10, 2010 @ 6:27 a.m.
J, your question contains an incorrect assumption. Dental therapists have been shown to provide a level of quality in patient outcomes that is not significantly different from that of dentists, for the limited range of services that dental therapists provide.
The economic principle at work here is comparative advantage. Some dental services require more specialized training and skills in order to be undertaken successfully. Dentists have a comparative advantage in providing those services, so the need for dentists will not disappear no matter how many dental therapists penetrate the market.
Other dental services do not require nearly as much specialized training and skills. Dental therapists have a comparative advantage in providing those services, because their lack of advanced training in providing more specialized services makes their time less valuable — not necessarily always in specific unique cases, but certainly in a general aggregate sense. They can therefore afford to charge less money than a full-fledged dentist would, for the limited range of dental services they provide.
Comment by Eric D. Dixon — February 10, 2010 @ 1:01 p.m.
Your analysis of the economics by comparative analysis is completly wrong. Yes the training is less specialized and therfore less cosly for a DHAT. But the cost of the education and training is a very small percentage of providing the service. Basic overhead between a DAHT and a Dentist would be equal (if you assume equal quality)—rent, equipment, staff, supplies, utilities,taxes and all the other fixed costs that go into providing the services would be equal. The cost of an education can be thought of being just another fixed cost over the years of providing the service and thus a very, very small percentage of the daily overhead. Everything after the cost of doing business is profit, the unknown in this model would be the willingness of a DHAT to settle for a smaller profit margin on their investment in actual dollars. (And in case you are wondering, those lesser specialized procedures you reference–for the DHAT to do—when done in a dental office usually have smaller profit margins than the more complex ones)
The REAL reason DHATs can provide possibly equal services (I am not yet willing to concede the point) is because they are heavily subsidized—usually through government expenditure or benevolent grants. Take the case of New Zealand or UK–yes they do provide needed services but they are doing it in schools and public clinics–the typical overhead costs are the burden of goverment. Alaska’s DHATs basicly work for the govenment through the Tribal Council. The MN expanded hygiene provider will most undoubtably work in a federal, state or local public health clinic, agian subsidized through higher taxes. I belive in all 53 countries which have some form of DHAT the real competitve advantage belongs NOT with your hypothisis of lesser cost through lesser education but rather with the power of the government and their largess with our tax dollars.
Comment by j — February 13, 2010 @ 3:59 p.m.
J, if dental therapists and dentists provide the same service for the same price, why bother having dental therapists in New Zealand and the UK? Why would they not just subsidize dentists? The answer is that dental therapists provide the same service for a better price.
And the subsidies do not affect the quality, that’s just fallacious reasoning. Comparative advantage is at play here. Overhead is a fixed cost, but a dental therapist’s time is not as valuable as a dentist’s, and thus she can charge slightly less. Plus, it is easier to get dental therapists (as opposed to dentists) to rural areas where there is a need for dental care.
Why not let the market decide whether individuals prefer dental therapists or dentists? The numerous studies show that there is not a safety issue.
Comment by Caitlin Hartsell — February 17, 2010 @ 9:58 a.m.
I agree it is cheaper to educate and train a therapist or nurse rather than a doctor, that is not the point I am making. Let’s assume, for the sake of discussion, the cost of educating a doctor is 120K and a therapist is one fourth or 30k (8 years of education vs 2 years). To make the math easy, let’s also assume a 30 year carreer working 200 days per year. The education costs are roughly $20 per day for the doctor vs $5 per day for the therpist, a miniscule amount when considering all the other fixed costs of providing care. Or put another way, lets also assume both the doctor and the therapist treat 30 people per day the “savings” you are proposing is roughly 50 cents per patient.
I did not suggest that subsidies of the clinics and school settings themselves affect quality of the provider but rather the costs of providing the services in a socialized health care system like New Zealand or the UK are less because of the governments willingness to spend the citizens tax dollars for infrastructure and the daily costs of doing business.
I find your statement ” Overhead is a fixed cost, but a dental therapist’s time is not as valuable as a dentist’s, and thus !she! can charge slightly less” rather disturbing and certainly sexist.
To suggest that anyone’s time is less valuable when providing direct health care to a patient is a dangerous precident to propose.
I also question your suggestion “it is easier to get dental therapists (as opposed to dentists) to rural areas where there is a need for dental care” as purely speculative. This statement is again one of the talking points for those people who seek to change our entire system of delivering heath care.
It is obvious from your statements that you really do not understand the political forces you are dealing with here. The free market is NOT at play but rather the first step to a socialized conversion. Now if you would like to argue that the citizens of our great state should be given the choice between government run and subsidised care as opposed to private free market access to the system than fine—let us have that discussion. But to try and dress this issue up as some sort of “comparative advantage” based on cost of education or the “lesser value” of a persons time and skill is just plain ludicrous.
Comment by j — February 19, 2010 @ 6:51 a.m.
No, J, that’s not how it works. For example, I can go to a university on a full scholarship for free or I can go to a private university for $160,000. Does that mean my time is more valuable when I paid $160k for the university? No, because the value is not in the PRICE but in the degree. There is an opportunity cost in going to school for X years, and taking on a more advanced degree. The pay back is not solely the cost of the education, but other intangibles like advanced skill and education level. (This is clear when one looks at actual salaries and costs.)
It’s just a fact that an MD’s time is “more valuable” than a physician’s assistant’s time. (And thus, the cost to see one or the other is significantly different) It is the same for a dentist vs. a dental therapist.
You cannot see past the examples of other countries. Socialized medicine is a completely different disagreement which I’m sure we probably mostly agree on; the issue at stake here is the licensing monopoly that dentists have on the profession in the US. Don’t conflate two separate issues.
As I said before, your argument is like saying I want teachers but since the far left wants teachers too, teachers are bad. It doesn’t mean that the teachers I advocate for can only work in the setting the far left or in the manner that the far left envisions. By all means, my vision is completely different.
Comment by Caitlin Hartsell — February 19, 2010 @ 10:00 a.m.
J, when Caitlin writes that a dental assistant’s time is less valuable, she’s talking about the wages they can command. People who have more training can generally earn more. This is an economic fact and has nothing to do with their worth as a human being, which I’m sure we all agree is not determined by money.
Comment by Sarah Brodsky — February 19, 2010 @ 10:07 a.m.
J, you’re essentially arguing the labor theory of value — the notion that the price of a good or service is determined by some combination of labor inputs such as effort expended or fixed costs. Economists used to believe that, up through the mid-1800s, but the marginal revolution replaced it nearly 150 years ago. Price is determined by an intersection of supply and demand, not by the cost of an education or the sunk costs of dental equipment and office space.
If consumers have a choice between seeing a dentist and seeing a dental therapist, both operating at the same price, they’ll choose the dentist every time because the dentist has superior training. So, the primary reason that dental therapists would charge less is because they have to.
There’s no way to tell in advance whether dental therapists would be able to survive without the kind of public subsidies you describe, but there’s no reason to artificially prevent them from trying. It’s a decision for consumers to make, not a decision for government officials to make on behalf of consumers. Besides, you’re forgetting about the much bigger subsidy that full-fledged dentists are receiving right now — artificially high incomes through regulatory capture. Licensure rules that disallow dental therapists from practicing are a form of protectionism, and amount to a huge government subsidy on the behalf of dentists. It makes no sense to be concerned about one form of subsidy but not the other.
The reason comparative advantage is the paramount economic consideration at play here is because some dental procedures require less skill than others. Society is always better off if people who have higher skills focus on those high-skilled services while lesser-skilled people undertake the lesser-skilled activities. P.J. O’Rourke explained it in a way that even you should be able to understand:
Someone who has better training should focus on the specific activities that require that training. Leave the rest to somebody else. Consumers are better off. Dentists are better off. Dental therapists are better off. Society is better off.
If you’re right that the sunk costs of maintaining dental equipment and office space will not allow dental therapists to charge significantly less than dentists, then dental therapy as a profession will die out on its own. Markets are excellent tools for sorting those things out. There’s no reason to keep the status quo regulatory subsidy for full-fledged dentists just because you don’t think dental therapists are a good idea. That’s a matter between consumers and providers.
Comment by Eric D. Dixon — February 19, 2010 @ 10:53 a.m.
Caitin, perhaps I do not understand the vision you are trying to share with the rest of us.
Your original argument was basically that dental therapists would be able to provide cheaper dental care because they were trained less and the dental board was the only impediment to setting up this healthcare system. Is this not correct?
As far as a physician/nurse practitioner versus dentist/dental therapist working model you are comparing apples and oranges. A physician and nurse must have a collaborative agreement in order for the nurse to provide direct patient care, the physician has standing orders, protocols and maintains responsibility for the patients overall care. I agree this model holds down the cost of care. Your proposal, if I understand it correctly, would create an independent practitioner capable of delivering direct care to a particular patient population (poor, rural).
Another fallacy in your analogy is there is no such thing as a surgical nurse assistant in medicine; your dental therapist (if you follow the examples of other countries or Alaska) would be providing surgical procedures like extractions and root canal therapy on children.
Perhaps this all a misunderstanding on my part and the “vision” you have for the future of healthcare delivery or maybe your vision has been clouded by another agenda…………?????
Comment by j — February 23, 2010 @ 7:03 a.m.
Sarah, Caitlin is not proposing a new dental assistant, she is advocating a new primary heathcare provider. This is a completly different discussion.
Comment by j — February 23, 2010 @ 7:08 a.m.
No, J, that is NOT what I am advocating. I am actually not advocating any particular way that this be brought about. I believe that the market would be better to determine which model works. There are a multitude of different examples or paths that this might follow.
The nurse-practitioner model is one viable option, if that is what works best in the dental model. Perhaps you are not familiar with how that actually works, but the “overseeing” physician in many cases need only be within 50 miles of the office. So the nurse-practitioner essentially is the primary care provider.
If dental therapists cannot do surgical care properly, then they will not provide surgical care because people will not want their services for that.
Comment by Caitlin Hartsell — February 23, 2010 @ 9:45 a.m.
There are really only two models in play here, first would be a basically independent practitioner like the ones in other countries OR the physician/nurse arrangement like in medicine. Excuse me if I assumed your “vision” was the one you seemed to advocate in your original articles and posts of the DHAT’s role in providing dental healthcare.
As far as the physician/nurse collaborative agreement, I am very familiar with the statute (RSMO 334) and the rules (20 CSR2150-7.135) which says the collaborating physician must be present at the same site as the physician assistant 66% of the time and within 30 miles the other 34% unless the team has received a waiver from the board of healing arts, those waivers are up to 50 miles but are very specific regarding location and need.
As I said in my very first post, the purpose of the dental board is to protect the public. It is their responsibility to work with all the interested stake holders in any discussion of “new” ideas including; educational requirements, scope of practice and responsibilities, level of supervision, appropriate settings and standards of care. It is their job to evaluate the evidence on an issue—–not extrapolate from a few studies or experiment with some political solution for the public’s health. This is not a new widget thrown out into the market to see if it is successful through market forces, this is health care. If a therapist cannot provide surgical care properly than someone gets hurt, maybe seriously…………is this really what you want the market to decide?
Comment by j — February 25, 2010 @ 10:42 p.m.
Eric, WOW we have really gone around the bend and into the weeds haven’t we? Grisham vs Love?? How about Ben Franklin vs Elvis or Da Vinci vs Michael Jackson—in cage death matches.
I am not the one who argued labor value theory; it was Caitlin in her original oped and previous posts. Her entire argument WAS based on a dental therapist providing cheaper care because of less investment in time and money in their education and training.
If you really want to get into modern theoretical theory and if memory serves me Ricardo was explaining a trade advantage in society’s production capacity making widgets or growing apples. I realize economic purists worship at Jevons alter but if we are really going to dissect the market forces, societies desire to access healthcare and those able to provide that health care then the discussion will need to be a little more germane than Nobody’s Daughter or A Time to Kill.
Comment by j — February 25, 2010 @ 11:02 p.m.
Markets are very efficient tools at sorting out the optimal equilibrium between risk, cost, and benefit. Governments are not. Health care is too important to leave in the hands of government regulation.
Comment by Eric D. Dixon — February 25, 2010 @ 11:03 p.m.
Eric,so you are advocating complete deregulation of heath care providers in order for markets to “sort out” who should be able to do what to whom?
Comment by j — February 26, 2010 @ 6:51 a.m.
Of course. Again, that’s much too important to leave to the public sector.
Comment by Eric D. Dixon — February 26, 2010 @ 9:03 a.m.
So let me see if I understand what your saying here Eric….
You want the market (health care consumers) to determine on their own, without any regulation from the government the educational requirements, scope of practice or the quality of care so an equilibrium can be reached in a risk/benifit ratio and then hopefully drive down costs?? You honestly believe that the only purpose of regulatory boards is to protect the profession they are overseeing??
Are you proposing doing away with ALL boards and agencies within the local, state and federal governments? That no one could possibly get hurt or killed? Or if they do it is only a market correction?
Am I understanding you correctly?
Comment by j — February 26, 2010 @ 9:32 p.m.
To be absolutely clear, I agree with Milton Friedman that government-mandated medical licensure of all stripes causes far more harm than benefit:
Comment by Eric D. Dixon — February 27, 2010 @ 1:34 a.m.