Comments on: Economics Forum 1: Public Goods http://www.showmedaily.org/2009/02/economics-forum-1-public-goods.html Advancing liberty with responsibility by promoting market solutions for Missouri public policy Wed, 23 May 2012 17:39:11 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: vroman http://www.showmedaily.org/2009/02/economics-forum-1-public-goods.html/comment-page-1#comment-1741 vroman Wed, 18 Feb 2009 07:01:47 +0000 http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=3009#comment-1741 downloading is a great example of cost-INeffective excludability. yes the copyright owner can exclude non-payers from viewing the movie, but only by mobilizing large organizations (ie FCC) and expending huge effort to succesfully prosecute violators, at a net-loss to the economy as a whole. the intellectual property owners (viewing their past profits) have a lot to lose, however with the logarithmic internet usage increases, they have already lost. free markets prevent the long term existence of firms whos strategy hinges on playing a negative-sum game. assuming we do not descend into a fully planned economy, the IP niche will ultimately fade away. downloading is a great example of cost-INeffective excludability. yes the copyright owner can exclude non-payers from viewing the movie, but only by mobilizing large organizations (ie FCC) and expending huge effort to succesfully prosecute violators, at a net-loss to the economy as a whole. the intellectual property owners (viewing their past profits) have a lot to lose, however with the logarithmic internet usage increases, they have already lost. free markets prevent the long term existence of firms whos strategy hinges on playing a negative-sum game. assuming we do not descend into a fully planned economy, the IP niche will ultimately fade away.

]]> By: Jake Voss http://www.showmedaily.org/2009/02/economics-forum-1-public-goods.html/comment-page-1#comment-1704 Jake Voss Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:39:33 +0000 http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=3009#comment-1704 I've been thinking about piracy a good deal lately. Are illegal torrents a public good? Is legality necessary? Let's say I want a copy of "The Dark Knight" on DVD. I go online, I find an illegal torrent, and download it. Now, ignoring my former post on whether or not a secondary purchase constitutes excludability. Anyone is free to download these torrents, and my downloading it does not prevent anyone else from also downloading it. Will illegal downloads become the new lighthouse example, or does the fact that a majority of them illegal keep them from being a true public good? I’ve been thinking about piracy a good deal lately. Are illegal torrents a public good? Is legality necessary?

Let’s say I want a copy of “The Dark Knight” on DVD. I go online, I find an illegal torrent, and download it. Now, ignoring my former post on whether or not a secondary purchase constitutes excludability. Anyone is free to download these torrents, and my downloading it does not prevent anyone else from also downloading it. Will illegal downloads become the new lighthouse example, or does the fact that a majority of them illegal keep them from being a true public good?

]]> By: vroman http://www.showmedaily.org/2009/02/economics-forum-1-public-goods.html/comment-page-1#comment-1679 vroman Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:14:34 +0000 http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=3009#comment-1679 my labor is not cost effectively excludable. ie taxes. my labor is not cost effectively excludable. ie taxes.

]]> By: Josh Smith http://www.showmedaily.org/2009/02/economics-forum-1-public-goods.html/comment-page-1#comment-1675 Josh Smith Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:32:48 +0000 http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=3009#comment-1675 to Jake: In my understanding the point of excludability, as it pertains to non-rival goods, is the concern about free-riders. I surmise that having to purchase a second, essential good in order to consume something non-rival does not necessarily constitute excludability, but it could. Anybody can make a radio and sell it, thus giving consumers the benefit of the radio service providers, but few can make an Xbox which gives access to Xbox Live Arcade. I suppose the question is whether the secondary good is proprietary or otherwise expensive to obtain/produce. I will give this more thought. to Jake: In my understanding the point of excludability, as it pertains to non-rival goods, is the concern about free-riders. I surmise that having to purchase a second, essential good in order to consume something non-rival does not necessarily constitute excludability, but it could. Anybody can make a radio and sell it, thus giving consumers the benefit of the radio service providers, but few can make an Xbox which gives access to Xbox Live Arcade. I suppose the question is whether the secondary good is proprietary or otherwise expensive to obtain/produce. I will give this more thought.

]]> By: Sarah Brodsky http://www.showmedaily.org/2009/02/economics-forum-1-public-goods.html/comment-page-1#comment-1672 Sarah Brodsky Thu, 05 Feb 2009 21:59:54 +0000 http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=3009#comment-1672 Thanks for the lighthouse links, Eric. I don't get a pdf when I click on the first one, though--it just goes to the China Center for Economic Research. Thanks for the lighthouse links, Eric. I don’t get a pdf when I click on the first one, though–it just goes to the China Center for Economic Research.

]]> By: Eric D. Dixon http://www.showmedaily.org/2009/02/economics-forum-1-public-goods.html/comment-page-1#comment-1671 Eric D. Dixon Thu, 05 Feb 2009 21:35:05 +0000 http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=3009#comment-1671 <a href="http://ccer.pku.edu.cn/download/7874-2.pdf" rel="nofollow">Here's a PDF of Coase's lighthouse argument.</a> Some economists have <a href="http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2006/10/24/was-coase-right-about-the-lighthouse/" rel="nofollow">disputed it since then</a>, though... Here’s a PDF of Coase’s lighthouse argument. Some economists have disputed it since then, though…

]]> By: Sarah Brodsky http://www.showmedaily.org/2009/02/economics-forum-1-public-goods.html/comment-page-1#comment-1669 Sarah Brodsky Thu, 05 Feb 2009 19:38:21 +0000 http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=3009#comment-1669 I recommend the last chapter of The Firm, the Market, and the Law http://www.amazon.com/Firm-Market-Law-R-Coase/dp/0226111016/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233862624&sr=8-1 about lighthouses provided privately. I recommend the last chapter of The Firm, the Market, and the Law
http://www.amazon.com/Firm-Market-Law-R-Coase/dp/0226111016/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233862624&sr=8-1
about lighthouses provided privately.

]]> By: Jake Voss http://www.showmedaily.org/2009/02/economics-forum-1-public-goods.html/comment-page-1#comment-1668 Jake Voss Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:44:20 +0000 http://www.showmedaily.org/?p=3009#comment-1668 A lighthouse is the example I most often hear. I'm often confused on whether radio waves are public or not. They are non-rival, sure, but is it excluding? Anyone with a radio can pick AM/FM signals up, but what if you do not have a radio. Does ownership of a necessary, secondary good count as excludability? A similar example would be the interstate system, but even if you do not have a car, you can still walk on it. There is no other way to pick up radio signals, except of course you have a coconut, palm leaves, and the rotting remains of the S.S. Minnow. Your thoughts Josh? A lighthouse is the example I most often hear.
I’m often confused on whether radio waves are public or not. They are non-rival, sure, but is it excluding? Anyone with a radio can pick AM/FM signals up, but what if you do not have a radio. Does ownership of a necessary, secondary good count as excludability?
A similar example would be the interstate system, but even if you do not have a car, you can still walk on it. There is no other way to pick up radio signals, except of course you have a coconut, palm leaves, and the rotting remains of the S.S. Minnow.

Your thoughts Josh?

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