Liberty, Curfews, and My Dart Nights
The Post-Dispatch has a story today about the proposal for University City to enforce a stricter curfew in the Loop district. Now, this is something I am qualified to write about, because I know the Loop pretty damned well. I have played darts at Blueberry Hill almost every Wednesday night since 1996, and that is where I first met my wife. But, despite my love of the Loop, and my full recognition of its importance to University City (where we live), I don’t know whether I support an enhanced curfew.
A curfew will only move a problem, not solve it. The Galleria moved its problem (with loitering young people, some committing crimes) to the Loop by instituting a curfew. Now the Loop wants to move the problem somewhere else. If you are a Loop business owner, solving the problem might be ideal — but moving it is fine, too. In the bigger picture, though, simply moving it is not fine.
I am not going to go on about violating anyone’s rights, because I agree with the laws that basically don’t allow a lot of rights until you turn 18. I think people tend to turn to curfews as a solution because there is not much else that can be done about large groups of young people hanging out in places they shouldn’t be. From the article:
The business leaders would like University City to provide more recreation programs for young people and encourage them to be with their families.
Neither of these things is really the responsibility of government — especially the latter. As for providing more recreation opportunities, I guess they could keep the rec center open later, but do we really think most of these kids live in University City, and hence come from families that pay taxes that support the rec center? The kids in question come from all over, and keeping the rec center open quite late — not to mention staffing it with security — would cost U. City taxpayers a lot of money. Perhaps it would be money well spent if it keeps people coming into the Loop and paying sales taxes. Perhaps not. But let’s be honest — hanging out in a hip place like the Loop is part of the fun for the kids, and some rec league isn’t going to replace that.
There is a thin line between kids harmlessly hanging out and aggressive youths making people feel uncomfortable — via panhandling, catcalls, or whatever. But making people feel uncomfortable is not necessarily a crime. It may, however, keep people away, which is what the Loop business owners fear. I can’t fathom having been allowed to hang out in the Loop late at night with my friends when I was 15. I can’t fathom allowing my son to do it when he is 15. But I am not stupid enough to think that all of these kids have Norman Rockwell homes and schools awaiting them when they do finally go home. I don’t know what the answer is. For the Loop, it may be a curfew. For our entire area, it is much more difficult.
I will, however, enthusiastically support a curfew if the police could arrest my friend Jimmy for violating it just once, even though he is now 37.
Ah being 16, I remember it as if it were only 4 years ago. It’s no secret that this curfew has a lot to do with the migrating crime caused by the ease of travel created by Metrolink. Here is the article from RFT that brought this idea to my and a lot of people’s attention. My one concern with the curfew is where the crime will relocate to now? Shrewsbury? Lambert? Under Grand? Who knows?
Being of age when I can still remember what curfews felt like, I can say I support this. Frankly, how much civil liberty is being lost by these minors when they aren’t allowed to hang out at the Loop? Now, I’m sure if they were actually patronizing these establishments, shop keepers would not be in favor of this curfew, but from the sound of it, loitering seems to be the theme here. Why can’t they hang out at Taco Bell like we did in WashMo? Fourth Meal.
The fact is one day these kids will turn 18 and be able to loiter wherever they feel like it. That’s why I support this curfew and that’s why I supported the curfew at the Galleria. Plus, I think it’s hilarious when my girlfriend or Pat Eckelkamp gets carded by mall cops.
Comment by Jacob Voss — November 19, 2008 @ 4:23 p.m.
Funny you say that. I just returned from a local watering hole and the bartender asked me how old I was. I turn 21 in 3 weeks and the drinking age in Madrid, Spain (if even enforced) is 18. This curfew will only further add to my public humiliation.
Comment by Pat Eckelkamp — November 19, 2008 @ 4:51 p.m.
Make no mistake that the only reason that the author did not hang out in the Loop at age 15 is that the only friends of his that drove at that time all lived in Glendale/ Webster Groves. Because of this, Dave spent his time loitering at the Burger King and/or Steak ‘n’ Shake on Brentwood Blvd, in a specific basement in Belleville or in my living room drinking my father’s beer.
Comment by Mike — November 20, 2008 @ 9:30 a.m.
I wholeheartedly support the curfew proposal, I was at the Loop for dinner last Saturday with my lovely wife, and we were subjected to an unreasonable amount of catcalling from a group of aggressive youths. Or it may have been this friend of yours, Jimmy. I can’t be sure, it was dark. Regardless, the police should be there to do something about this.
Comment by Greg — November 20, 2008 @ 11:12 a.m.
The Galleria has issued more than just a curfew, it has implemented policies which start at 3 PM for those under 17. GGP’s printed/circulated statements state “those who lack proper identification will be asked to leave the property. ID must be tamper proof and include photograph and date of birth”.
Do your teenage sons/daughter that don’t have a driver’s license typically carry such ID? Parents with responsible offsprings who live in walkable distance of the Galleria no longer allow them to go to movies or shop there any more. Gun laws don’t work well either.
Comment by Jack — November 21, 2008 @ 8:12 a.m.
“It’s no secret that this curfew has a lot to do with the migrating crime caused by the ease of travel created by Metrolink. Here is the article from RFT that brought this idea to my and a lot of people’s attention. My one concern with the curfew is where the crime will relocate to now? Shrewsbury? Lambert? Under Grand? Who knows?”
Teenagers have been able to Metro to the Loop since you were in kindergarten. These kids aren’t coming from Brentwood or Maplewood or Shrewsbury. There’s nothing new about their ability to get to the Loop. There’s been a rash of shootings recently, oh MAN that must be because of concealed carry! Right?
Comment by Sarah Anne — November 26, 2008 @ 2:05 p.m.
Curfews are just a diversion, and won’t accomplish anything. Every business has the right to kick people off their property if need be. But if people aren’t causing any harm, what’s the problem? And kids are fully capable of making their own fun.
Comment by Joe Nonnenkamp — December 2, 2008 @ 1:39 p.m.